Interview with Rufus Johnson [Sarah Shen #1]

Partial Transcript: Shen: Could you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about yourself, your background, and how you got into teaching choir at Armstrong High School?
Johnson: Sure, my name is Rufus Johnson III. I am, uh, been teaching for fifteen years at the elementary and high school levels. I did eleven years of elementary school and the other four I’ve been teaching, uh well, I guess four or five I’ve been teaching at the high school level. I am from Richmond, Virginia. I went to Henrico high school and I went to college at Fayetteville State University where I got my Bachelor’s of Science degree in music education, concentration in voice, 2003 graduate.
S: When did you start teaching choir at Armstrong?
J: This is my third year at Armstrong. Yep, I teach at both Armstrong and TJ.
S: Oh! Armstrong and Thomas Jefferson?
J: Yeah, I’m the choir director at both schools. So I’ve been at both of those schools since November of 2016? 15? Something like that.
S: That’s really nice because I only got your contact information because you taught choir at Armstrong, but I didn’t know that you also taught choir at TJ.
J: Yep, a lot of the music teachers are at multiple schools. I think I’m the only one that’s doing two high schools doing choir, I think.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson introduces himself and his job at Armstrong and Thomas Jefferson High School.

Keywords: Armstrong High School; Choir director; Fayetteville State University; Henrico; Richmond, VA

Subjects: Experience in teaching so far; Music and education background

Partial Transcript: S: Okay. So what kind of students are involved in the choir at Armstrong?
J: Well, I have an array of, you know, beginners to more advanced students. Some students that have been in choir for a long time. Some, you know, just get placed in my class. They’ve never sung, ever. So, you know, some have no desire to sing, some just, you know, they may not be able to cut it in other classes and they have to put them in somewhere, something. And they stick them in choir, they stick them in art, they stick them in band and we gotta make the best out of it. So sometimes it’s, you know, you have a student that’s not really doing anything, because they can’t – you know, you can try to get them to, “Hey man, let’s come on and sing. It’s not that bad, just use your ear.” Some I can win over, some I’m cool with them, they may not be disrespectful, but they just don’t want to sing. And you know, you just kind of remind them like, “Hey man, this is your grade, you know.” But, some of them are just stubborn. You know, they’d rather take an F than just try. Or take a D or whatever, just instead of trying. But you have the students who are, you know, you’re trying to meet the bar for them because they’ve been in choir forever and they catch things quick and they can sing and you know, it’s just kind of rudimentary when you’re trying to mix all of that in in one room. Uhm, it’s you know, some days are better than others, it’s good times. And sometimes, ah, you just want to pull your hair out. But, there’s a varied array of students in achievement levels.
S: Do you think you have more of the former students you described, or the latter kind of students you described?
J: I think, uhm, I think I have a lot that’s kind of in the middle. Mostly it’s kind of in the middle. Yep, you have a few that kind of – they really, really, really get it, really bright. You can see that they can get music, they can sing, anything you throw out they can sing. You got some that, eh, they don’t really want to do anything and then most of them are just kind of in the middle. They’ll sing, uh, but you got to stay on them. You gotta, you know, make sure they’re picking the music up, make sure they’re trying to get better and they’ll – you know, you’ll develop a report of them, they’ll do it for you, you know what I mean? As long as you’re pushing them.
S: Do you think any of your choir students take private lessons outside of school? Are there any?
J: I don’t think so. I don’t think there are, uh, I don’t think there are.
S: Do you think the students in your choir are an accurate representation of the general student population that attend Armstrong High School?
J: I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think it’s just a mixed bag, you know.
S: Yeah. What kind of an impact does singing in the choir have on the students?
J: Some of them, some of them, I’d like to say it helps them get over stage fright and nervousness and gives them something that they can do to kind of overcome some of their fears and anxiousness. And some of them rise to the challenge, and some of them choose not to. But, you know, I’ll always have the invitation like “Hey, I treat this like if you’re a basketball player, if you’re a cheerleader, if you’re a boxer, if you’re a football player. It’s competition, it’s competitive, it’s a team sport, it’s, you know, you bring your best, you give your best, in order to get the best out of your audience.” Uhm, so I try to sell it like that and try to sell it with where they are. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just doesn’t. So I don’t know, sometimes they’re just really afraid of what their peers are going to think and that kind of thing. They’re afraid to be bad, so they won’t try to be good.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson talks about the types of students involved in choir at Armstrong attitude. He discusses the difficulty he has with teaching different ends of the skill spectrum, especially with those who do not want to be in choir at all.

Keywords: Attitude; Choir; Culture; Demographics; Impact; Representation; Sing; Students

Subjects: Frustrations in teaching a wide array of students; Types of students involved in choir at Armstrong

Partial Transcript: S: What is the history of choir at Armstrong High School, if you know?
J: Well, Armstrong used to be, well, Kennedy and Armstrong High Schools were two different schools. Like historically, like back in the 30s, 50s, 60s, 70s, they were two different schools. And I think that at some point, Kennedy High School shut down, and Kennedy used to be a legendary, kind of, their music program was very legendary. And uhm, Kennedy shut down and they used Armstrong, the building that Kennedy – or the building that Armstrong is using now used to be Kennedy high school. So when they closed Kennedy, they just combined Armstrong and Kennedy and put it all – and just called it Armstrong and put them all in Kennedy. So historically, there’s a lot of history in both schools that date back fifty, sixty years. Uhm, but uh, some of it has been kind of washed in because of the merger of the names, and that kind of thing over the years. But uh, it’s very – there’s a lot of historic, there’s a lot of, you know, historical stuff there. I have a lot of trophies there in the choir room, there’s a lot of old pictures, uhm, of the choirs back in the seventies, sixties. You know, used to be a hundred person choir at some point from what I understand, you know.
S: Is it a lot smaller than it has been before?
J: Yeah I probably have a total of – at both schools – I have about fifty kids total. Between forty to fifty kids that are enrolled in the choir program. Uhm, and you know, a lot of them didn’t choose choir, a lot of them aren’t in – they’re not in specific levels. You know, by theory how they should be. Uh, it’s kind of a mixed bag and I just work with what I have but you know –
S: So you don’t have an advanced choir and like a beginner choir, it’s just like one choir?
J: Yeah. Like on paper it will say these four students are in advanced choir and then these ten students are in intermediate but they’re all in the same class period.
S: Oh, I see. Yeah.
J: Yeah.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the choir program's history, before and after the merger with John F. Kennedy High School. The program has now decreased in size.

Keywords: Armstrong High School; Choir; History; Kennedy High School; Merge

Subjects: History of choir at both Armstrong and Kennedy High Schools; Merger of the two high schools; The decrease in program size

Partial Transcript: S: So what kind of activities is the choir involved in outside of Armstrong’s campus?
J: We’ll typically do uhm, like, next week we have Christmas caroling at City Hall. We typically do all-city choir every year. We typically will sing for graduation. Uh, we’ll do one or two, you know, maybe a couple of community-grade things, events, you know, outdoor events and things like that. We’ll do stuff like that every now and again as well. We sung at different scholastic achievement events, or I may have student that goes, and go with me and they’ll sing or something like that. So we do pretty good, I think the choir as a whole could probably do more of course. As far as doing more traveling and things like that, I was trying to initiate doing some travel with, doing some competition with festival and stuff this year. Just, you know, it’s just sometimes, you know, it’s a little difficult to get it off the ground. You’re trying to grow two different programs.
S: How are these activities funded? Is it funded by the parents, by the school, or by other sources?
J: Well typically, sometimes we have, you know, school funding, Title I funding sometimes for certain things. But really a lot of what we do when we go somewhere it’s like a school bus or it’s like a school field trip, uhm, so it doesn’t really cost us anything. Things like at school, if we’re doing a play or something at school, you know, school finds funds to fund things. I haven’t really asked parents for any money or acquired dues or anything like that. That’s still something I’m trying to establish. I have to do a better job with working on establishing that communication with parents and that rapport like this is our choir program, this is what we’re building kind of thing.
S: I know some peo- some schools have uh, a music boosters organization. Does Armstrong have anything like?
J: No, nuh-uh. Not for choir.
S: So the funding mainly comes from the school district.
J: Mhm, yeah. If it’s school funding or something that’s district wide yeah the district will pay for it, like all-city choir and things like that. But if we go somewhere to sing, uh it’s like a field trip, we get an activity bus, and that kind of thing.
S: Do you feel like you have a clear understanding of the funding structure and how if you want to get more money, like how to get it?
J: Hm...not really. And that’s more my fault because I just – dealing with money makes me nervous. So, I don’t, you know, my entire teaching career I have never really gone and fundraised and gotten money and no. I don’t even, you know. I just don’t do it.
S: Do you feel like it’s harmed you in any way or do you wish you could have gotten a more a clear understanding about the funding structure?
J: Absolutely. I think – I mean you have to have money to do things. I think sometimes I get nervous of just the responsibility of it. You know, I don’t want to mess it up. But that’s kind of a thing on me. I’m very kind of just simple and I just, you know, teach our songs and we can sing. You know, as long as it’s somewhere we’re going, it’s super free, you know. But like I’m definitely afraid to take them traveling, take them to a festival, out of town, or something like that.
S: Is it difficult to find information to get funding or is it just a personal thing that you haven’t looked at?
J: It’s definitely a personal thing for me. I don’t think it’s that difficult to find funding or really just put together a letter and ask for – I just think it’s out there. Like I said, I’m a, it’s a thing where I’m just – by the time, I guess because I’m so busy outside of school, too, that I’m really just in school and out of school. Like I don’t really stay back, I don’t really stay for hours and try to like make phone calls and all that stuff. Really I mean, then I’m at two schools. I’m at one school, the next day I’m at a different school, the next day I’m back at the first school, so, I really – I just kind of work and then I go to my next job, you know, my second job, whatever my part-time job is. You know, I’m just always kind of moving on the go. I’m not at one school, kind of settled in. You know, that’s something personally I’m trying to work on between being more settled and doing less stuff outside and just sort of focus on two or three really good things I want to work on being good at.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses various activities the Armstrong choir participates in and how those activities are funded. He does not find funding to be an issue, and believes there is sufficient funding.

Keywords: Activities; At-risk; Availability; Choir; Community events; Funding; Title I

Subjects: Armstrong choir activities and funding; Sufficient funding; Title I funding

Partial Transcript: S: Is it, uhm, do you teach at two schools because you have to, because due to the number of students?
J: Yeah, that. Yes. And kind of my understanding is, you know, in order to have a full-time music position, you have to be teaching a certain amount of sections and certain amount of students total. So, where used to be, at one point TJ had one teacher and Armstrong had one teacher and got – I guess over the years, before I came. You know, and here’s kind of, you know, degraded down where, you know, the school didn’t have enough for a full-time position on it’s own. So it’s really just based on the numbers – it’s based on enrollment numbers. So, that’s part of the job, you know, to get interesting – try to get kids interested in getting in choir. But some of the issue is they can’t really choose what they get into even if they wanted to. There are a lot of kids that want choir, that – their core classes come first. So if there’s a math section open that they need, they’re in the same period that I teach choir, you know, I’m only there one day, I’m only there on an even day or on an odd day, you know, my chances are lessened. So it’s kind of a - it’s kind of a revolving door problem. You know, the solution would be to have a teacher at one school every day so we have a bigger chance of getting more students for your program. But because the numbers aren’t there, they can’t take the risk to say, “Alright Mr. Johnson, you only have forty kids at this school. We’re going to put you here full-time and you have to grow this program.” You know, I’m kind of expected to grow two programs at the same time, but really all I’m able to do is keep them afloat. You know, we perform..
S: When you say the numbers aren’t there, do you mean like the number of students interested, or just on the amount of funding the school district has to hire new teachers?
J: I think it’s a little bit of both. I think kids are interested, but some that are interested can’t get in. You know, a lot of kids would take choir if they could. But they can’t get in based on the day I’m there and the way my – you know, they have four core classes so they can’t get in the day that I’m there, on an even day or an odd day. So I switch days, so it’s just I’m really still only, I’m really only half-time at two schools instead of that equal school time for me. But they still only have a half-time teacher. So some of the problem is the off-time and then, you know, you can’t get kids interested if you’re not as visible as – you can’t do that as much as it’s more difficult to do more. You know, I would love to do more talent shows, I would love to do more open mics at the schools during the school days to highlight, you know, kids’ skills. I would like to do, you know, maybe a little coffee houses, you know, during our free period or something once a month on a Friday. You know, those are ideas that kind of be done, but it’s sometimes it’s – we’ve been making little strides like I have a sound system at one of my schools. So, they were very great and supportive in ordering these. You know, letting me order that. So that helps us a lot, we use that for our program now, we actually have a real sound system now that sounds good that makes everyone feel more confident in what we’re doing. So it’s just small stuff, you know, it’s just small stuff.
S: Is that sound system at Armstrong or at Jefferson?
J: Armstrong. So with Armstrong we were able to do it with, I think, Title I funding. Because of the kind of school it is and where it’s located and stuff like that. They have, different things like that. So, you know, I was able to justify why we needed it and I was able to use some funding to get that done. TJ doesn’t have that as much.

TJ v. Armstrong: Students and Eligibility for Funding
S: What was the difference between TJ and Armstrong in terms of, like, eligibility and stuff like that?
J: Well TJ I think is more of a – there are a lot of kids that go to the school that are out-of-zone. And they’re able to come into TJ – TJ used to be the governor’s school years ago. So it was really like a big deal like I tried to get in, when I was in high school I tried to get into TJ the governor’s school. You have to take a test and everything. But I didn’t get in. But the governor’s school is not there anymore and TJ is kind of looked at as – it’s a school where, you know, kids from different – if you’re kind of on a different level you kind of go to TJ. Like if some were zoned to go to Armstrong, they’re able to come to TJ. I guess because he rigor is a little bit different, it’s a little more challenging, I guess, a little more rigorous than say some of the classes at Armstrong, at John Marshall, or Huguenot or something like that.
S: Do you think TJ has more funding that Armstrong, or, does Armstrong have more funding because of their, uhm, I don’t know, the difference in eligibility?
J: Yeah, in my opinion, I think Armstrong has a little more flexibility with funding because of Title I and stuff like that; because it’s like an at-risk school or something like that. TJ doesn’t have as much of that. TJ you’re kind of on your own. You kind of have to create your fundraisers, create your own ways of making money, you know, ask people to donate. You know, that kind of thing. Because TJ doesn’t have – it’s more self-sufficient, it doesn’t have that extra help, necessarily.
S: Does TJ need the extra help, do you think?
J: I mean I think any school could use it. It’s just – if I’m able to build the program like the band, they have, at TJ, they have a booster program. You know, the teacher that’s there, you know, he’s there full-time and he’s been there years. So he’s definitely built that program up to what it is. You know, he’s there everyday as well. His focus can be just on the culture at one school. Uhm -
S: Does TJ –
J: So he’s able to – hm?
S: Continue, sorry.
J: What was your question?
S: I was just wondering does TJ have a music boosters program? I know you said that Armstrong doesn’t.
J: No, TJ doesn’t either because it’s on me to build it. And I just, I kind of don’t know how to do that and then I also have my own insecurities about it and my own, you know, I just…
S: Do they have a boosters for band or choir – I mean band or orchestra or something like that?
J: Yeah they have a band program. Yeah, the band has a boosters program for TJ. I’m not sure about Armstrong. But definitely TJ the band, kind of, it’s a well-oiled machine. He has a booster’s program, he has parents that help with fundraising, help with accounting and all that kind of stuff. So all that stuff he has set in place there.
S: But that Booster’s program is separate from, like, choir? Like you can’t use those funds?
J: No, nuh-uh. There may be some funds. There may be a hundred dollars, a couple hundred dollars or something like that maybe set aside for programs. I would have to ask because it’s just, it’s not ever really spoken on. Nobody is coming to tell you, “Hey, you got this money to use.” I don’t – those conversations aren’t really ever had. Uhm, and that’s probably on me, too, because I’m not – I don’t make myself super visible. I just kind of come to work and I teach my classes and I go home. So some of that is definitely on me.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses his feelings on teaching at two different schools. He finds it difficult to do so and is unable to focus on both schools at the same time to grow the music programs.

Keywords: Choir; Focus; Full-time; Music position; Two programs

Subjects: Difficult to focus due to teaching at multiple schools; Full-time music positions in RPS; Unable to grow programs

Partial Transcript: S: What was the difference between TJ and Armstrong in terms of, like, eligibility and stuff like that?
J: Well TJ I think is more of a – there are a lot of kids that go to the school that are out-of-zone. And they’re able to come into TJ – TJ used to be the governor’s school years ago. So it was really like a big deal like I tried to get in, when I was in high school I tried to get into TJ the governor’s school. You have to take a test and everything. But I didn’t get in. But the governor’s school is not there anymore and TJ is kind of looked at as – it’s a school where, you know, kids from different – if you’re kind of on a different level you kind of go to TJ. Like if some were zoned to go to Armstrong, they’re able to come to TJ. I guess because he rigor is a little bit different, it’s a little more challenging, I guess, a little more rigorous than say some of the classes at Armstrong, at John Marshall, or Huguenot or something like that.
S: Do you think TJ has more funding that Armstrong, or, does Armstrong have more funding because of their, uhm, I don’t know, the difference in eligibility?
J: Yeah, in my opinion, I think Armstrong has a little more flexibility with funding because of Title I and stuff like that; because it’s like an at-risk school or something like that. TJ doesn’t have as much of that. TJ you’re kind of on your own. You kind of have to create your fundraisers, create your own ways of making money, you know, ask people to donate. You know, that kind of thing. Because TJ doesn’t have – it’s more self-sufficient, it doesn’t have that extra help, necessarily.
S: Does TJ need the extra help, do you think?
J: I mean I think any school could use it. It’s just – if I’m able to build the program like the band, they have, at TJ, they have a booster program. You know, the teacher that’s there, you know, he’s there full-time and he’s been there years. So he’s definitely built that program up to what it is. You know, he’s there everyday as well. His focus can be just on the culture at one school. Uhm -
S: Does TJ –
J: So he’s able to – hm?
S: Continue, sorry.
J: What was your question?
S: I was just wondering does TJ have a music boosters program? I know you said that Armstrong doesn’t.
J: No, TJ doesn’t either because it’s on me to build it. And I just, I kind of don’t know how to do that and then I also have my own insecurities about it and my own, you know, I just…
S: Do they have a boosters for band or choir – I mean band or orchestra or something like that?
J: Yeah they have a band program. Yeah, the band has a boosters program for TJ. I’m not sure about Armstrong. But definitely TJ the band, kind of, it’s a well-oiled machine. He has a booster’s program, he has parents that help with fundraising, help with accounting and all that kind of stuff. So all that stuff he has set in place there.
S: But that Booster’s program is separate from, like, choir? Like you can’t use those funds?
J: No, nuh-uh. There may be some funds. There may be a hundred dollars, a couple hundred dollars or something like that maybe set aside for programs. I would have to ask because it’s just, it’s not ever really spoken on. Nobody is coming to tell you, “Hey, you got this money to use.” I don’t – those conversations aren’t really ever had. Uhm, and that’s probably on me, too, because I’m not – I don’t make myself super visible. I just kind of come to work and I teach my classes and I go home. So some of that is definitely on me.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the difference in funding structure between TJ and Armstrong High Schools. TJ must be self-sufficient whereas Armstrong has the extra help of Title I funding.

Keywords: Armstrong High School; Boosters programs; Eligibility; Funding; Thomas Jefferson High School; Title I

Subjects: Difference in funding between TJ and Armstrong; Eligibility for Title I Funding

Partial Transcript: S: What kind of students are involved in the choir at TJ?
J: It’s, uhm, I think the culture at TJ is a little bit different. It’s a little bit more settled. It’s the same issue at the roots, you know, as far as scheduling course-wise. [inaudible] You know, core classes take precedence, you know, over everything else. [S: The arts?] Yeah, the arts. You just kind of get – if you have time for one, you can fit in, but it’s not necessarily you’re going up the ladder of beginner, intermediate, advanced. You know, everybody in your level is moving up with you so you can – you’re getting things done according to your level. And everybody in your level understands. So I kind of have to combine everybody to make one choir.
S: So TJ also only has one choir despite, like, random labeling, like, advanced?
J: Yeah, it’s kind of like one choir. But what I do is – if I have like, for instance, our Christmas concert, or our holiday run, I have a group of guys that I taught one song. That they’re gonna do a feature. And I have a group a girls that are a really good group of singers that I taught one song and they’re gonna do a feature. So I’ll do creative things like that to try to, you know, kind of appease some of my more advanced ones. And there’s great things I want to do – like I want to have a group of guys sing a quartet song. You know, like uh, my guys want to do White Christmas by the Drifters and the girls want to do Mary Did You Know. But they all want to take a lead section and sing lead and sing harmony together. We just arranged it on the fly, we didn’t - it’s not coming from any written music, we’re just arranging it on the fly you know what I mean. So I had to be creative and do something like that, you know, and uh, so I think it’s pretty exciting to be able to do something like that like that’s a step into something that next year, other kids might see that and want to become a part of that. Other kids are want to see it and stay in, and that kind of thing.
S: Do you think any of your students at TJ take private lessons outside of school?
J: Not to my knowledge, not to my knowledge I don’t think so.
S: So what are the demographics at TJ compared to Armstrong?
J: Uhm, TJ is, TJ might be slightly more diverse as far as there’s a Hispanic population there. Uhm, there are some white kids there, mostly black though. It’s a little more diverse, a little more diverse and it’s the way it’s set up in the choir. It’s still mostly black, mostly black kids and I may have - I want to say last year I had one Hispanic young lady and I had another white young lady and I maybe had one white guy in one class. But mostly African American.
S: Is Armstrong also mostly African American?
J: Yeah, very much so. Like you know, you don’t really see – I mean I don’t see very many Caucasian kids, Hispanic kids, not at Armstrong yeah. Armstrong is right in the middle of, you know, it’s right in the middle of the projects.
S: Do you think there’s like a big income gap between the kids that go to TJ and the kids that go to Armstrong?
J: Overall, probably so. But even with that there are some kids that live in Armstrong zone who go to TJ. So it can be very misleading, you know what I mean. It looks like oh it could be greener on this side, but not really. You know, some of the same issues are there at both schools. They’ll pull from different zones, from different kids that will only be in other schools, they’ll just come to TJ.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the types of students that participate in choir at Thomas Jefferson High School. He also compares this demographic to that of Armstrong high school.

Keywords: Choir; Demographics; Learning environment; Skill level; Thomas Jefferson

Subjects: Income gap; Type of students and demographics in choir at TJ

Partial Transcript: S: What kind of activities are TJ students, like TJ choir students involved in outside of TJ’s campus?
J: Uhm, as far as choir activities or just other sports and stuff like that?
S: No, just choir.
J: So I kind of mimic what I do at both schools. We’ll go perform – city hall – both schools are slated to do that. We have –
S: So they’re pretty similar?
J: Yeah, pretty similar MO.
S: So when you go to like all city choir, how many students do you send from each school? Like how is that determined?
J: Well I think – I don’t know, I was asking that same question, I don’t know if there’s actually a set number. But I try to take about ten or fifteen you know, I try to take as many as possible because there’s not a lot of high schools. So I think they’re trying to have a choir that’s pretty sizable, you know, fifty, sixty, seventy kids. So I try to take as many as I can that know their music, that I know can [inaudible]. Because some of them are just not built to sing all day, or rehearse all day, stand on their feet a lot, it’s just they’re babies, man, you know, they don’t get it. [laughs] Some of them will get whining and complaining so I don’t want to hear that all day long so some of them I say look man, I know some of you all I’ll tell you now, don’t get there complaining because that’s not what this is about.
S: Yeah. So you get to choose the number of students? Like there are no descriptions on the number?
J: I don’t think there are any restrictions, no. But like I said to me, I just try to go at least ten. I don’t see myself taking more than twenty, ever, not right now. Uhm, and they all be – they all know what they’re doing and they’re all ready to go. I try to keep it realistic like I might take ten, fifteen maybe, you know, ten, twelve kids.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses different activities the TJ choir participates in.

Keywords: Activities; Choir

Subjects: Thomas Jefferson Choir Activities

Partial Transcript: S: Do you know the – well, what is the history of choir at TJ then? Or just the music programs in general at TJ?
J: Well yeah I think TJ – once again it’s an older building, older school. I think it’s historically probably is pretty good. I know the choir – I think the lady – they had the main lady, her name was Ms. Jackson. She’s probably was there, I don’t know, maybe four or five years ago maybe. And I think some of my seniors in my first year may have had her or something like that. So I heard her name mentioned uhm in times like that. And I think she was at TJ for years and years – maybe fifteen, twenty years or something like that. I think she had it going pretty well but then after that, it was like a different teacher every year. So there was never – I think I’ve been the longest one there since. You know, because there was probably two or three different teachers that were there just like a year turnaround or a few months here or there over the course of a few years, so, I’ve kind of been the longest tenure teacher since that lady at either school.
S: So what is the – what are some of the – how has it changed over time? Like how – just because of the moving in and out of teachers do you think the choir program has decreased or increased?
J: Oh yeah it’s been decimated. It’s been decimated. Because kids you know, when they see lack of consistency, they leave. They don’t want to be in the choir. When they see a different teacher they don’t know who they don’t want to be in it and they want to get out of it. It’s almost impossible to get them back. Just because they get older, they get close to graduation so they have other classes they need to take. And then some of them opt to go home early or they do work programs or do something like that. So, you know, it’s just hard to keep them in the fold, you know, you really are just still kind of building. You know I have some students that were freshmen when I got there. You know they’re still in choir, so they’ve been with me for two or three years. You know, we’re still trucking along and we’re still building every year. Uhm, but then next year, they might not be able to take choir for scheduling reasons.
S: Do you think, what is the funding in general for – do you know what the funding is – I know we talked about the funding in general for TJ earlier and how the band program has boosters, do you know of the other music programs at Armstrong that isn’t choir, and what their funding is like?
J: I’m not sure what band has, I’m not really sure. I know the band director also teaches at a middle school so he’s not there fulltime either. He’s there doing half-time like me. But I’m not sure, I’m not sure, I think they kind of do enough to get by too. They have uniforms and – I think there may have been a grant from the city for – you know, some kind of grant that came to the city for instruments so I think everybody kind of got instruments equally that kind of thing. But on the school level, I don’t know if there’s a lot of building up at the school level – you know with the parents or you know that kind of thing. I figure it’s just kind of a struggle across the board.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the history of choir at Thomas Jefferson High School. The program has decreased in size and quality due to high teacher turnover rate.

Keywords: History; Music Programs; Thomas Jefferson High School; Turnover

Subjects: High teacher turnover rate; The history of choir at Thomas Jefferson High School

Partial Transcript: S: Do you think the music teachers in RPS communicate with each other?
J: I think so. I know, you know, the choir directors that we have you know the middle school and high school choir directors. We have a group text and we kind of do pretty good with you know, communicating things with each other and you know, kind of keep each other alert in things that we see going on. Conferences and things like that so I think we do a pretty good job of contact for the most part.
S: What kind of improvements do you think can be made to the music program in Richmond public schools in general?
J: I think for me, I don’t ever really complain about the money and stuff. That’s not really my thing. My thing is, I would just like to be able to have, uhm, just to be considered a priority for kids that want choir. I think I would have a much better program if I can just get kids that want to be in choir, and not have kids that are thrown into the choir. You know what I mean? It makes it kind of harder to do your job, you know, because my advanced kids are all like, “Mr. Johnson why do you keep on talking to them? We’re ready to sing.” And I’m like, “Hey guys, the state is telling me that I have to teach them just like I have to teach you. So, I can’t just let them walk or do nothing. I legally cannot do that. I know that you all are ready to sing and believe me I am ready for you all to sing.” But, you know, it’s a slick thing. I gotta do my job and make sure that, you know, I have to provide data and make sure that they’re getting some kind of education because as soon as they complain, you know, it looks bad on me if I’m not teaching them. So it’s just – it’s a hard job. Sometimes it’s just a frustration of I just wish that teaching music is just teaching music. And I can teach music to kids that want to have music and I can just, you know, I can just get into those kids’ head and we can grow, and build, and we can have a good old time doing what we do in music. But you know, they put a little bit of everybody in my course. And I, I know that there are going to be stragglers, but you know.
S: So in closing, what would you say are the main differences, if there are any, between the music programs at Armstrong and at TJ?
J: I think the culture lends a lot to the differences. So, but I mean essentially, I will say this – I will say that at TJ, there’s a little more enthusiastic kids there. Like what I did, what I was telling you I did with my boys and my girls, they have a separate group that’s performing? I can’t really do that at Armstrong. Even if I have kids that have skills, they’ll just – the girls don’t want to sing together, the boys can have skills but they think they don’t have skills or it just doesn’t look cool to them. So they don’t, they don’t put their full effort. It’s more of a fight at Armstrong, a little bit than at TJ. Some of the TJ kids more so get it. They’re easier to perform, they just want to sound good. They’ll work, they’ll be ready to perform, if you put them in a room with other people at their level, they’ll give you. They’ll go and they’ll do good. They’ll work and get it together. Sometimes I don’t get that as much at Armstrong. Like I have really two – I have really good skillful kids, but they’re having some jealousy or they don’t see how they can come together and sing together. It’s like you all, do you understand the power that you possess if you got over your little, you know, whatever little jealously or attitude? And like just sung together, and just share the load and just share the, you know, just share the beautiful, like [laughs] you know, the program can grow so much if people just saw you all working together.
S: Do you see any possible solutions in the near future to this environment change – to change the culture?
J: Uhm…I think, I mean I think some of it has to be – like I said, on me personally, you know, freeing up my time to dedicate more time to – you know, there’s gotta be some things afterschool, there’s gotta be, it’s gonna have to be there. I can’t do much more than what I’m doing now, just kind of in and out. That’s just one of those things, I really don’t think I’m going to be able to. So, that’s part of the weird thing is that I have to, for me as a teacher I’ve gotta dedicate more. And sometimes that’s a challenge because you’re worn out after a day of working, after a day of attitude, after a day of you know, kids in and out of your classroom, kids complaining about not wanting to sing. You know, all you want to do is go home. You don’t want to say alright kids, get ready for after school rehearsal, you know. It is just – sometimes you just don’t want to deal with that you’re ready to kind of get home, and just unwind, and just breathe. So it’s a double edged sword sometimes. I love them though.
S: Yeah. Well thank you so much! This was really helpful
J: Awesome.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses communications among music teachers in RPS. Moreover, he states how funding is not the issue, but rather, student attitude is an issue due to the number of unwilling students in his choir class.

Keywords: Choir; Communication; Culture; Dedication; Improvements; Students

Subjects: Communication among music teachers in RPS; Possible improvement areas